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Thread: Pitch Counts in IHSA

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by orphs View Post
    I guess the solution to that is to not let your kid play as much.
    He's not. Playing mostly basketball this summer.

  2. #17

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    It's an honor system. The IESA requires pitch counts with graduated return to pitch after "X" number of pitches = "X" number of days off. They do not have an extra umpire or neutral party there to count. It's on the coaches. Just like anything else with coaching, you might have people who want to take advantage and be dishonest. Those that do, are probably already doing something dishonest and do not have the kids best interest in mind.

    If the IHSA wants to enact a pitch count, then do it, and place the responsibility on the coaches, who ALREADY keep the count anyway, to enforce their recovery phase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIFBcoach7 View Post
    It's an honor system. The IESA requires pitch counts with graduated return to pitch after "X" number of pitches = "X" number of days off. They do not have an extra umpire or neutral party there to count. It's on the coaches. Just like anything else with coaching, you might have people who want to take advantage and be dishonest. Those that do, are probably already doing something dishonest and do not have the kids best interest in mind.

    If the IHSA wants to enact a pitch count, then do it, and place the responsibility on the coaches, who ALREADY keep the count anyway, to enforce their recovery phase.
    Will this change anything though? The coaches who have the best kids' best interests at heart aren't going to need to make a change, because they're already giving kids the rest in between outings that they need and not abusing arms. The coaches who don't do those things, probably aren't going to be honest with the amount of pitches a kid throws or give them the "mandated" rest time that the IHSA would put in place.

    I just think if we think there is a problem with overuse of arms and it needs addressed, then it should be addressed with something that can be enforced. If that cannot be done, then leave it alone.
    Last edited by jwashko555; 05-26-2016 at 09:33 AM.

  4. #19

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    It should not be that hard to develop a rule to help prevent injuries to pitchers. The MLB website has a chart with the number of pitches a player should throw per day depending on the pitcher's age. It also lists the recommended days of rest based on the number of pitches thrown. MLB recommends a high school pitcher should throw between 95 - 105 pitches per game. After throwing 95 - 105 pitches MLB recommends they should have 4 days of rest. Why not follow the recommendations of Major League Baseball? I am sure MLB's research is accurate.

    The research is available to help IHSA develop a pitching limitation rule. It should be based on pitches thrown and not innings.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by softball22 View Post
    It should not be that hard to develop a rule to help prevent injuries to pitchers. The MLB website has a chart with the number of pitches a player should throw per day depending on the pitcher's age. It also lists the recommended days of rest based on the number of pitches thrown. MLB recommends a high school pitcher should throw between 95 - 105 pitches per game. After throwing 95 - 105 pitches MLB recommends they should have 4 days of rest. Why not follow the recommendations of Major League Baseball? I am sure MLB's research is accurate.

    The research is available to help IHSA develop a pitching limitation rule. It should be based on pitches thrown and not innings.
    I agree. It shouldn't be based on innings. I also think the MLB research and recommendations are good. Innings are not a true indicator of the work load a pitcher goes through. It doesn't count pitches and it doesn't account for the amount of pitches a kid makes in high-stress situations. However, I don't see how a pitch count rule will be put into place. How is the IHSA going to enforce it? My point is, if it cannot be truly enforced, then there should not be a rule.

  6. #21
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    The real sad issue here is that a high school coach would place a teenager is a situation that would possibly lead to permanent injury for the sake of winning a high school baseball game. A good coach can pretty accurately gauge each of his players athletic levels and should appropriately keep the athlete under those levels. A.D.s should monitor these conditions if he/she suspects over use. You cant hide the fact that one or two particular athletes are getting all the work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by umpjong View Post
    The real sad issue here is that a high school coach would place a teenager is a situation that would possibly lead to permanent injury for the sake of winning a high school baseball game. A good coach can pretty accurately gauge each of his players athletic levels and should appropriately keep the athlete under those levels. A.D.s should monitor these conditions if he/she suspects over use. You cant hide the fact that one or two particular athletes are getting all the work.
    We have had a local coach that for YEARS has abused his kid's health. He is either too stooopid to understand or simply only cares about his Ws. The only way to fix this abuse is to have an AD that steps in. Idiots will always be idiots.

    I guess if the coach AND the AD are morons, the kids are screwed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    We have had a local coach that for YEARS has abused his kid's health. He is either too stooopid to understand or simply only cares about his Ws. The only way to fix this abuse is to have an AD that steps in. Idiots will always be idiots.

    I guess if the coach AND the AD are morons, the kids are screwed.
    Yep! Hopefully the parents will step up.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cj5050 View Post
    When my kid was a 6th grader, he played mattoon in travel ball and they let a kid pitch in the mid 140's. For our travel team, no kid will pitch more than 80 pitches in a game, as well as have very sufficient rest between outings.
    Ever kid is different. What do they throw? How hard? What shape are they in? How stressful is their "80" pitches?

    I once pitched my son 153 pitches in a wood bat game. He didn't throw a curve. Just fastball and change with location. It went 13 innings and we won 2-1. Two guys at the concession stand kind of got on me about leaving him in for the entire game and I explained to them that he averaged 11.7 pitches per inning. He didn't bat. He went out and threw, come back and sat, rinsed and repeated 13 times. That is way easier on an arm than those 40 pitch stressful innings.

    I always keep pitch counts, but I tend to pay more attention to High Pitch/Stress innings than overall count. If one of my pitchers is out there for a 40+ pitch inning, he is not going back out there. That to me is when they cause arm stress.
    Allright dad nabbittt, Who's on first!

  10. #25

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    Sadly, I have seen this over and over in high school and college softball as well. If the IHSA institutes a pitch count for baseball, they also need to institute one for softball. Girls are pitching 3-5 complete games a week over the entire span of the season (sometimes two or three complete games in a single day), and they are developing permanent injuries as well. I canít tell you how many times I have heard someone say the softball throwing motion is not as damaging as the baseball throwing motion, so it is okay for girls to throw every day. Of course, it is not okay for girls to throw every day. Limits should be set on softball pitching as well. The IHSA (as well as all softball governing bodies) need to educate coaches about softball pitching injuries. There are too many girls out there who are being overpitched and left with life-long injuries.

  11. #26
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    I was always under the belief that with the softball delivery that one would tire out first. Almost impossible to hurt oneself.
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  12. #27
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    I don't totally believe in a strict pitch count because, as already stated by someone else, each pitcher is different.
    When I was in high school, I saw a guy throw 160 pitches in a regional game that went 12 innings. He was truly in great shape and had no issues.
    After winning that semifinal game, we had our No. 2 go in the championship game. He got to about 90 pitches early in the sixth inning and he was done.
    Two different pitchers, two different styles, two different scenarios. That, automatically, makes it difficult to put a strict rule in place.
    So, I would make a rule on days of rest.
    Here is a rough idea.
    Any pitcher that threw more than 25 pitches must take at least one day off.
    Any pitcher that threw between 26-50 pitches must take two days off
    Any pitcher that throws between 51-75 pitches must take three days off
    Any pitcher that throws between 76-100 pitches must take four days off.
    Any pitcher that throw more than 100 pitches must take five days off.

    Put this on the coaches. Both teams are responsible for keeping their pitch counts and their opponent's.
    Once we reach the postseason, the regional/sectional manager is responsible for charting all pitches.
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  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjryno23 View Post
    Ever kid is different. What do they throw? How hard? What shape are they in? How stressful is their "80" pitches?

    I once pitched my son 153 pitches in a wood bat game. He didn't throw a curve. Just fastball and change with location. It went 13 innings and we won 2-1. Two guys at the concession stand kind of got on me about leaving him in for the entire game and I explained to them that he averaged 11.7 pitches per inning. He didn't bat. He went out and threw, come back and sat, rinsed and repeated 13 times. That is way easier on an arm than those 40 pitch stressful innings.

    I always keep pitch counts, but I tend to pay more attention to High Pitch/Stress innings than overall count. If one of my pitchers is out there for a 40+ pitch inning, he is not going back out there. That to me is when they cause arm stress.
    Being your child you obviously may do as you please, I know I certainly would never throw my own child or yours even remotely close to that no matter how stressful the pitches were. My only question would be, was winning the game really that important?
    I coached a 14U travel team that was very average. We played the best team in the Champaign area against a kid that went on to pitch D1 in Texas one evening.
    We threw our #4 pitcher who was very average. We were up 2-1 going bottom of 6 and our pitcher had thrown 63 pitches. He did well, gave up a walk and left runners stranded at 1st and 3rd to end the 6th. He had thrown 81 pitches at the end of 6. During the inning I told our other coach to get his son up throwing, he told me our current pitcher has a no hitter still in tact. To begin the 7th inning I took out our starter and put in his son. We committed 2 errors, walked 1 and lost on a walk off single 3-2.
    The kid who had the no hitter in tact had a very angry mother who called me every 4, 6, and 7 letter awful name you can possibly think of after the game. I very calmly told her I care about the health of her child and would have done the same if it were anyone else's child. A no hitter in a travel league game between 14 yr old kids to me is not something I would ever give a 2nd thought to 5 min after it happened even if it was my own child.
    The pitcher that had this no hitter thru 6 never played an inning of high school baseball. I would make the same decision over 100 more times.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    I was always under the belief that with the softball delivery that one would tire out first. Almost impossible to hurt oneself.
    There is less stress on softball pitchers, but there is still stress. I've heard of many over usage issues during summer tournaments. I have seen it some during the high school season for girls, but I think there is a worse element with overusing the overhand throw for high school boys.
    I love the sports!

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liebebball12 View Post
    Being your child you obviously may do as you please, I know I certainly would never throw my own child or yours even remotely close to that no matter how stressful the pitches were. My only question would be, was winning the game really that important?
    I coached a 14U travel team that was very average. We played the best team in the Champaign area against a kid that went on to pitch D1 in Texas one evening.
    We threw our #4 pitcher who was very average. We were up 2-1 going bottom of 6 and our pitcher had thrown 63 pitches. He did well, gave up a walk and left runners stranded at 1st and 3rd to end the 6th. He had thrown 81 pitches at the end of 6. During the inning I told our other coach to get his son up throwing, he told me our current pitcher has a no hitter still in tact. To begin the 7th inning I took out our starter and put in his son. We committed 2 errors, walked 1 and lost on a walk off single 3-2.
    The kid who had the no hitter in tact had a very angry mother who called me every 4, 6, and 7 letter awful name you can possibly think of after the game. I very calmly told her I care about the health of her child and would have done the same if it were anyone else's child. A no hitter in a travel league game between 14 yr old kids to me is not something I would ever give a 2nd thought to 5 min after it happened even if it was my own child.
    The pitcher that had this no hitter thru 6 never played an inning of high school baseball. I would make the same decision over 100 more times.
    You can coach my kid. Kudos.

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