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Thread: 3 Flora JFL coaches resign

  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by IHSAClinician View Post
    Here is the entire definition.
    --------------------------------------------

    In Rule 2-32-16 says:

    A defenseless player is a player who, because of physical position and focus of concentration is especially vulnerable to injury. A player who initiates contact against a defenseless player is responsible for making legal contact. When in question, a player is defenseless.

    Examples of a defensless player include, but not limited to:
    a. A player in the act of or just throwing a pass;
    (Usually the Quarter back)
    b. A reciever attempting to catch a plass or who is not had time to clearly become a runner; (Usually a recieve)
    c. The intended reciever of a pass in the action during and immediately following an interception or potential interception;
    d. A runner already int he grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has stopped;
    e. A kickoff or punt returner attempting to catch or recover a kick, or one who has completed a catch or recovery and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner;
    f. A player on the ground including a runner who has obviously given himself up and is sliding feet-first;
    g. A player obviously out of the play or not in the immediate vicinity of the runner; and
    h. A playre who recieves a blindside block with forceful contact not imitiated with open hands.


    ---------------------------------------------------------

    There is not a single example that suggests that lineman in a stance by definition is a defenseless player, but a passer (who is often the QB) and a WR who is obviously a receiver are specifically mentioned as defenseless when they are in the act of passing or receiving a pass.

    Again, the point was that there are not definitions that that make this player in question a defenseless player. But as I said it does not matter, because if this kind of reckless hit is made, you can still consider his act to be flagrant and get rid of him for the game. Flagrant acts are not exclusive to targeting or even defenseless players as I have stated.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rule 2-16-2c says:
    "Flagrant - a foul so severe or extreme that it places an opponent in danger of serious injury, and/or involves violations that are extremely or persistently vulgar or abusive conduct.
    -------------------------------------------

    This definition was here long before the definition of defenseless player or even targeting. Ten years ago I still would be advocating an ejection.

    So what you call this foul is as stated, basically irrelvant to me (and even most officials that actually know the rule.
    "But not limited to..."

    Wouldn't have fallen under umbrella of defenseless player before the rule was instituted is irrelevant. Rules change, interpretations change, and application of rules change.

    The "but not limited to..." and the fact that it CLEARLY falls under this category makes the player defenseless.

    I would argue this would fit either definition. They are NOT mutually exclusive.

    You are basically arguing that the two rules are mutually exclusive...

  2. #77
    Plus Member IHSAClinician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by future ex coach View Post
    "But not limited to..."

    Wouldn't have fallen under umbrella of defenseless player before the rule was instituted is irrelevant. Rules change, interpretations change, and application of rules change.

    The "but not limited to..." and the fact that it CLEARLY falls under this category makes the player defenseless.

    I would argue this would fit either definition. They are NOT mutually exclusive.
    When you have to file the report to the people that hire you, you can say whatever you like in your report. Considering that this was also not an IHSA, it does not matter what anyone from the IHSA has to say about it, because it did not happen in their game. Just like someone from the NCAA has little say over what happens in an NAIA game or JUCO game. This was youth football which is often like the wild, wild west and has little procedural oversight, which is why many officials have no desire to work these games once they have gotten to a certain level of officiating as these situation are often not treated with the reverence they should be treated.

    Again a flagrant act (Rule 2-16-2c) does not need another definition (like defenseless or targeting) to justify that flagrant act being ruled. It is that simple.
    Last edited by IHSAClinician; 09-20-2017 at 10:27 AM.
    Waiting for the summer.

  3. #78
    Bronze Club - Nov 11, 2016
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    Didnt everyone learn anything???? Stay out, stay sane
    My SIG was taken because I doubted dcaudle

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by IHSAClinician View Post
    When you have to file the report to the people that hire you, you can say whatever you like in your report. Considering that this was also not an IHSA, it does not matter what anyone from the IHSA has to say about it, because it did not happen in their game. Just like someone from the NCAA has little say over what happens in an NAIA game or JUCO game. This was youth football which is often like the wild, wild west and has little procedural oversight, which is why many officials have no desire to work these games once they have gotten to a certain level of officiating as these situation are often not treated with the reverence they should be treated.
    [U][U]
    Again a flagrant act (Rule 2-16-2c) does not need another definition (like defenseless or targeting) to justify that flagrant act being ruled. It is that simple.
    Umhh...is Rule 2-26-2c that you cite found in the Flora Junior Football League league rule-book? If it IS NOT from their Rule Book it is irrelevant evidence in regards to your attempted straw man fabricated defense...Jefferey looses again...case closed.
    One Tin Soldier Rides Away

  5. #80
    Plus Member IHSAClinician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 25sparky View Post
    Umhh...is Rule 2-26-2c that you cite found in the Flora Junior Football League league rule-book? If it IS NOT from their Rule Book it is irrelevant evidence in regards to your attempted straw man fabricated defense...Jefferey looses again...case closed.
    They wrote their own? Just like the people making up rules that they never had to apply?
    Waiting for the summer.

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